tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7501850621793894577.post8873996267304096472..comments2023-08-25T06:49:32.974-07:00Comments on Pillar and Ground of the Truth: Florensky on ecclesialityFr. Gregory Hogghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01829108455227450650noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7501850621793894577.post-76270038174023756712015-12-06T17:06:00.994-08:002015-12-06T17:06:00.994-08:00I wrote this in response to a youtubber, it might ...I wrote this in response to a youtubber, it might be of use here. <br /><br />any unorthodox panentheism of the sort you are worried about, can probably be traced to <br />Pavel Florensky. http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/i6223.html who brought symbolism <br />into Orthodox theology, made an aesthetic issue out of truth and with the help of a <br />monastic elder apparently in prelest, decided that God and Creation are one in the same <br />way God and man are one in Christ. sounds like the creation is the incarnation so to speak <br />of God, not in the sense that an artist is shown forth or METAPHORICALLY incarnated in his<br />art, but in a more direct sense if I understand this character right. and he talks about <br />the Church encountering the other world instead of encountering Christ. Russia had a <br />problem in those days, one priest in the (I think late) 1800s wrote that a dreamy state <br />had come on Russia for the past 200 years which was bad. some of what is said in this <br />article as being what Florensky thought and taught sounds like a formula for producing <br />prelest, or at least being susceptible to it more than the usual fallen human needs to be. <br />Russia also produced Met. Anthony Khrapovitsky who aside from his many merits as a leader <br />of ROCOR during the Bolshevik days, and as a confessor and pastor, was weak in the head <br />theologically and transferred the redemption from Golgotha to Gethsemane, denied that <br />Christ could have felt fear or anything anticipating His Crucifixion and death, and <br />denied atonement altogether as any part of the redemption positing moral redemption <br />(a masochistic wallow in sympathetic pain conducted in Christ's case supposedly as a <br />shaming effect attempt on everyone else), which he supposedly discovered for the first <br />time but obviously plagiarized substantially from Abelard's ideas, and came close to <br />facing a heresy trial by the Holy Synod of ROCOR. This nonsense still haunts us.Christine Erikson (aka Justina)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11594093718714798117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7501850621793894577.post-88377893562925271292015-12-06T17:01:53.171-08:002015-12-06T17:01:53.171-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Christine Erikson (aka Justina)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11594093718714798117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7501850621793894577.post-66951839533786458602009-01-21T19:51:00.000-08:002009-01-21T19:51:00.000-08:00I was e-mailed my post and noticed some bad langua...I was e-mailed my post and noticed some bad language. In the first paragragh at the end I wondered "how this differs from Ecclesial words." I have never seen someone use Ecclesiality before but I like it.<BR/><BR/>Sorry, I was quickly responding before going to work. I hope you, Fr. or Eric will still see the post as I am just reading it for the first time.Francishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03786053375869899146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7501850621793894577.post-37560054246166311342009-01-21T11:43:00.000-08:002009-01-21T11:43:00.000-08:00I will have to look up more about what Fr. Pavel i...I will have to look up more about what Fr. Pavel is referring to...what Ecclesiality is. It seems he means the "life of the Church" and I wonder how this differs from what and other Ecc* words. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, my experience of the Orthodox understanding of Ecclesialness is what is described above and also in many cases something that is defined in good detail. <BR/><BR/>My experience of my own Church is as it is defined above and much more. Ecclesial existence for the Church is the whole deal. Catholics speak of this "Church Life" from the books to the pews... and from the Pope to the 'refuge' for one experiencing a "dark night."<BR/><BR/>Fr. Pavel, at least from this quote, seems to me to simplify things a bit.<BR/><BR/>Soloviev did indeed convert to Catholicism and some Orthodox Churches have deemed him as unorthodox.Francishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03786053375869899146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7501850621793894577.post-25283635550927870582009-01-04T14:58:00.000-08:002009-01-04T14:58:00.000-08:00Hi, Eric! As I understand it, Solovyov's legacy is...Hi, Eric! As I understand it, Solovyov's legacy is rather mixed in the Orthodox communion. He certainly has a cool beard, though. :-)Fr. Gregory Hogghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01829108455227450650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7501850621793894577.post-49062195363954711792009-01-04T11:00:00.000-08:002009-01-04T11:00:00.000-08:00I've been reading Vladimir Solovyov lately (whom F...I've been reading Vladimir Solovyov lately (whom Florensky was influenced by) and I would think that Solovyov would say just the opposite about the "indefinability of Orthodox ecclesiality" being a benchmark of the true Church. I'm not sure how I feel about it though.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12239329366205393925noreply@blogger.com